hybrid Digest, Vol 45, Issue 2

Wed Oct 15 01:33:37 EDT 2008

module should be written?

On 10/15/08, hybrid-request at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
<hybrid-request at lists.ircd-hybrid.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Admin Module (Wouter Snels)
>    2. Re: Admin Module (Joan Touzet)
>    3. Re: Admin Module (Ariel Biener)
>    4. RE: Admin Module (Jon Lusky)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:47:09 +0200
> From: Wouter Snels <nospam at ofloo.org>
> Subject: Re: Admin Module
> To: General IRCD-Hybrid Discussion <hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org>
> Message-ID: <48F3C1DD.4020307 at ofloo.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> true but, what is better not being able to run anything because you are
> not able to comply with the law, just because it's not available, or
> risking system administrators might abuse this because it's available.
>
> one could write such a module and add a line to the connect when the
> module is loaded telling users that chat sessions might be monitored, ..
>
> Regards, ..
>
> Martin J. Green schreef:
>> It may also be illegal in some countries :)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
>> [mailto:hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org] On Behalf Of Wouter Snels
>> Sent: 12 October 2008 19:12
>> To: General IRCD-Hybrid Discussion
>> Subject: Re: Admin Module
>>
>> Though in some countries it's obligated to monitor chat sessions to
>> avoid kiddy porn, .. ! I can verry wel understand the demand for this
>> kind of module, ..
>>
>> Regards, ..
>>
>> Robert Brockway schreef:
>>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, IRC.US.COM Administration wrote:
>>>
>>>> as immoral as it is.. it 'can' be done. granted, it may be your server
>>>> but
>>>> unless they know you are doing it or even having it stated so in the
>>>> motd..
>>>> well, i wouldn't want to rest on a server that monitors my 'private'
>>>> conversations. :)
>>> It may not be immoral.  Companies running internal IRC networks are
>>> often interested in this feature from an 'information capture' point of
>>> view[1].
>>>
>>> So I what I'm saying is there is thin wedge where this is legitimate ;)
>>>
>>> Of course morality (and maybe legaility) will require that this is
>>> stated upfront.  I was asked about this recently by a company and
>>> recommended that they _not_ do it as not desirable for some corporate
>>> information to be transparently logged by a 3rd party (the sysadmins).
>>>
>>> [1] I've also seen them like it due to a desire to check up on staff :(
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>> Administrator of IRC.US.COM
>>>> Maxaemillion S. DeMorrow
>>>> ( 937 ) 838 - 0242
>>>> Nickname: msd
>>>> "The All American IRC Network"
>>>> Http://www.irc.us.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "wellex" <wellex at freeirc.org>
>>>> To: <hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:29 am
>>>> Subject: Admin Module
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> can admin spy user private message ? anyone have module to spy user
>>>> private
>>>>> message or how to ?
>>>>> thank you
>>>>> --
>>>>> weliyanto a.k.a wellex
>>>>> freeirc project
>>>>> Indonesia - SEA (South East Asia)
>>>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:59:00 -0400
> From: "Joan Touzet" <joant at ieee.org>
> Subject: Re: Admin Module
> To: "General IRCD-Hybrid Discussion" <hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<fca6577f0810140559i3763d2dvb7051a2037cc20a7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> This has been a matter of debate for a very long time.
>
> Such a logging module has never been (and probably never will be)
> included with ircd-hybrid because, well, it makes the temptation to
> act immorally / illegally much higher.
>
> That said, such a logging module would not be difficult to write if
> you know what you're doing. You can find an obsolete and incomplete
> attempt at this in the old ircd module archive here:
> http://www.wohmart.com/ircd/pub/hybrid/4-Hackops/logging/ This diff
> probably will *not* work without modification.
>
> No, I won't help you to get it working.
>
> Best regards,
> Joan
> ---
> Joan Touzet  |  joant at ieee.org  |  wohali at efnet
>
>
>
> 2008/10/13 Wouter Snels <nospam at ofloo.org>:
>> true but, what is better not being able to run anything because you are
>> not able to comply with the law, just because it's not available, or
>> risking system administrators might abuse this because it's available.
>>
>> one could write such a module and add a line to the connect when the
>> module is loaded telling users that chat sessions might be monitored, ..
>>
>> Regards, ..
>>
>> Martin J. Green schreef:
>>> It may also be illegal in some countries :)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
>>> [mailto:hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org] On Behalf Of Wouter Snels
>>> Sent: 12 October 2008 19:12
>>> To: General IRCD-Hybrid Discussion
>>> Subject: Re: Admin Module
>>>
>>> Though in some countries it's obligated to monitor chat sessions to
>>> avoid kiddy porn, .. ! I can verry wel understand the demand for this
>>> kind of module, ..
>>>
>>> Regards, ..
>>>
>>> Robert Brockway schreef:
>>>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, IRC.US.COM Administration wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> as immoral as it is.. it 'can' be done. granted, it may be your server
>>>>> but
>>>>> unless they know you are doing it or even having it stated so in the
>>>>> motd..
>>>>> well, i wouldn't want to rest on a server that monitors my 'private'
>>>>> conversations. :)
>>>> It may not be immoral.  Companies running internal IRC networks are
>>>> often interested in this feature from an 'information capture' point of
>>>> view[1].
>>>>
>>>> So I what I'm saying is there is thin wedge where this is legitimate ;)
>>>>
>>>> Of course morality (and maybe legaility) will require that this is
>>>> stated upfront.  I was asked about this recently by a company and
>>>> recommended that they _not_ do it as not desirable for some corporate
>>>> information to be transparently logged by a 3rd party (the sysadmins).
>>>>
>>>> [1] I've also seen them like it due to a desire to check up on staff :(
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of IRC.US.COM
>>>>> Maxaemillion S. DeMorrow
>>>>> ( 937 ) 838 - 0242
>>>>> Nickname: msd
>>>>> "The All American IRC Network"
>>>>> Http://www.irc.us.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "wellex" <wellex at freeirc.org>
>>>>> To: <hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:29 am
>>>>> Subject: Admin Module
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> can admin spy user private message ? anyone have module to spy user
>>>>> private
>>>>>> message or how to ?
>>>>>> thank you
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> weliyanto a.k.a wellex
>>>>>> freeirc project
>>>>>> Indonesia - SEA (South East Asia)
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:58:37 +0200
> From: Ariel Biener <ariel at efnet.org.il>
> Subject: Re: Admin Module
> To: hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
> Message-ID: <200810141558.37274.ariel at efnet.org.il>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"
>
> On Tuesday, 14 בOctober 2008 14:59, Joan Touzet wrote:
>> This has been a matter of debate for a very long time.
>>
>> Such a logging module has never been (and probably never will be)
>> included with ircd-hybrid because, well, it makes the temptation to
>> act immorally / illegally much higher.
>>
>> That said, such a logging module would not be difficult to write if
>> you know what you're doing. You can find an obsolete and incomplete
>> attempt at this in the old ircd module archive here:
>> http://www.wohmart.com/ircd/pub/hybrid/4-Hackops/logging/ This diff
>> probably will *not* work without modification.
>
> One can easily ltrace or strace the IRCD process and see everything
> that is going on, if it's a must. If law enforcement wants to wire-tap, they
> don't need your module for that, they can easily ask the ISP for
> cooperation,
> so lets not try to invent reasons for a spy module.
>
> --Ariel
>>
>> No, I won't help you to get it working.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Joan
>> ---
>> Joan Touzet  |  joant at ieee.org  |  wohali at efnet
>>
>> 2008/10/13 Wouter Snels <nospam at ofloo.org>:
>> > true but, what is better not being able to run anything because you are
>> > not able to comply with the law, just because it's not available, or
>> > risking system administrators might abuse this because it's available.
>> >
>> > one could write such a module and add a line to the connect when the
>> > module is loaded telling users that chat sessions might be monitored, ..
>> >
>> > Regards, ..
>> >
>> > Martin J. Green schreef:
>> >> It may also be illegal in some countries :)
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
>> >> [mailto:hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org] On Behalf Of Wouter Snels
>> >> Sent: 12 October 2008 19:12
>> >> To: General IRCD-Hybrid Discussion
>> >> Subject: Re: Admin Module
>> >>
>> >> Though in some countries it's obligated to monitor chat sessions to
>> >> avoid kiddy porn, .. ! I can verry wel understand the demand for this
>> >> kind of module, ..
>> >>
>> >> Regards, ..
>> >>
>> >> Robert Brockway schreef:
>> >>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, IRC.US.COM Administration wrote:
>> >>>> as immoral as it is.. it 'can' be done. granted, it may be your
>> >>>> server
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> unless they know you are doing it or even having it stated so in the
>> >>>> motd..
>> >>>> well, i wouldn't want to rest on a server that monitors my 'private'
>> >>>> conversations. :)
>> >>>
>> >>> It may not be immoral.  Companies running internal IRC networks are
>> >>> often interested in this feature from an 'information capture' point
>> >>> of
>> >>> view[1].
>> >>>
>> >>> So I what I'm saying is there is thin wedge where this is legitimate
>> >>> ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> Of course morality (and maybe legaility) will require that this is
>> >>> stated upfront.  I was asked about this recently by a company and
>> >>> recommended that they _not_ do it as not desirable for some corporate
>> >>> information to be transparently logged by a 3rd party (the sysadmins).
>> >>>
>> >>> [1] I've also seen them like it due to a desire to check up on staff
>> >>> :(
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>>
>> >>> Rob
>> >>>
>> >>>> Administrator of IRC.US.COM
>> >>>> Maxaemillion S. DeMorrow
>> >>>> ( 937 ) 838 - 0242
>> >>>> Nickname: msd
>> >>>> "The All American IRC Network"
>> >>>> Http://www.irc.us.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "wellex" <wellex at freeirc.org>
>> >>>> To: <hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:29 am
>> >>>> Subject: Admin Module
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hello,
>> >>>>> can admin spy user private message ? anyone have module to spy user
>> >>>>
>> >>>> private
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> message or how to ?
>> >>>>> thank you
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> weliyanto a.k.a wellex
>> >>>>> freeirc project
>> >>>>> Indonesia - SEA (South East Asia)
>
> --
>  --
>  Ariel Biener
>  *.il EFnet Admin
>  PGP: http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:20:55 -0400
> From: "Jon Lusky" <lusky at blown.net>
> Subject: RE: Admin Module
> To: "'General IRCD-Hybrid Discussion'" <hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org>
> Message-ID: <00be01c92e08$126c3ff0$3744bfd0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"
>
> I'm partial to tethereal/tshark myself...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
> [mailto:hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org] On Behalf Of Ariel Biener
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:59 AM
> To: hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
> Subject: Re: Admin Module
>
> On Tuesday, 14 בOctober 2008 14:59, Joan Touzet wrote:
>> This has been a matter of debate for a very long time.
>>
>> Such a logging module has never been (and probably never will be)
>> included with ircd-hybrid because, well, it makes the temptation to
>> act immorally / illegally much higher.
>>
>> That said, such a logging module would not be difficult to write if
>> you know what you're doing. You can find an obsolete and incomplete
>> attempt at this in the old ircd module archive here:
>> http://www.wohmart.com/ircd/pub/hybrid/4-Hackops/logging/ This diff
>> probably will *not* work without modification.
>
> One can easily ltrace or strace the IRCD process and see everything
> that is going on, if it's a must. If law enforcement wants to wire-tap, they
> don't need your module for that, they can easily ask the ISP for
> cooperation,
> so lets not try to invent reasons for a spy module.
>
> --Ariel
>>
>> No, I won't help you to get it working.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Joan
>> ---
>> Joan Touzet  |  joant at ieee.org  |  wohali at efnet
>>
>> 2008/10/13 Wouter Snels <nospam at ofloo.org>:
>> > true but, what is better not being able to run anything because you are
>> > not able to comply with the law, just because it's not available, or
>> > risking system administrators might abuse this because it's available.
>> >
>> > one could write such a module and add a line to the connect when the
>> > module is loaded telling users that chat sessions might be monitored, ..
>> >
>> > Regards, ..
>> >
>> > Martin J. Green schreef:
>> >> It may also be illegal in some countries :)
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org
>> >> [mailto:hybrid-bounces at lists.ircd-hybrid.org] On Behalf Of Wouter Snels
>> >> Sent: 12 October 2008 19:12
>> >> To: General IRCD-Hybrid Discussion
>> >> Subject: Re: Admin Module
>> >>
>> >> Though in some countries it's obligated to monitor chat sessions to
>> >> avoid kiddy porn, .. ! I can verry wel understand the demand for this
>> >> kind of module, ..
>> >>
>> >> Regards, ..
>> >>
>> >> Robert Brockway schreef:
>> >>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, IRC.US.COM Administration wrote:
>> >>>> as immoral as it is.. it 'can' be done. granted, it may be your
>> >>>> server
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> unless they know you are doing it or even having it stated so in the
>> >>>> motd..
>> >>>> well, i wouldn't want to rest on a server that monitors my 'private'
>> >>>> conversations. :)
>> >>>
>> >>> It may not be immoral.  Companies running internal IRC networks are
>> >>> often interested in this feature from an 'information capture' point
>> >>> of
>> >>> view[1].
>> >>>
>> >>> So I what I'm saying is there is thin wedge where this is legitimate
>> >>> ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> Of course morality (and maybe legaility) will require that this is
>> >>> stated upfront.  I was asked about this recently by a company and
>> >>> recommended that they _not_ do it as not desirable for some corporate
>> >>> information to be transparently logged by a 3rd party (the sysadmins).
>> >>>
>> >>> [1] I've also seen them like it due to a desire to check up on staff
>> >>> :(
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>>
>> >>> Rob
>> >>>
>> >>>> Administrator of IRC.US.COM
>> >>>> Maxaemillion S. DeMorrow
>> >>>> ( 937 ) 838 - 0242
>> >>>> Nickname: msd
>> >>>> "The All American IRC Network"
>> >>>> Http://www.irc.us.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "wellex" <wellex at freeirc.org>
>> >>>> To: <hybrid at lists.ircd-hybrid.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:29 am
>> >>>> Subject: Admin Module
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hello,
>> >>>>> can admin spy user private message ? anyone have module to spy user
>> >>>>
>> >>>> private
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> message or how to ?
>> >>>>> thank you
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> weliyanto a.k.a wellex
>> >>>>> freeirc project
>> >>>>> Indonesia - SEA (South East Asia)
>
> --
>  --
>  Ariel Biener
>  *.il EFnet Admin
>  PGP: http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html
>
>
>
>
>
> End of hybrid Digest, Vol 45, Issue 2
> *************************************
>

-- 
weliyanto a.k.a wellex
freeirc project
Indonesia - SEA (South East Asia)